Some of the questions being asked are:
Why is it we have never seen any numbers, plans, figures, etc. for updating the middle and intermediate schools? Did the PISD and facilities committee not seek this information from the architect? If not then why? Was the plan for a new high school complex in the works prior to the appointment of the facilities committee and the facilities committee just the rubber stamp?
The number being tossed around on construction cost is $165 a square foot. The intermediate school could use an additional 5000 square feet of classroom space. At $165 a square foot that comes to $825,000. Another 10,000 square foot at the middle school and you are looking at a cost of $1.65 million. Total for classroom space where it is needed is $2.5 million. According to the local paper the PISD has this amount and more in reserves. Why don't they get busy? They did in regards to a new field house and turf for the football field. Total project costs for those items was estimated at $2.5 million.
A new high school complex is not the only answer! Some added space at the critical areas and better space utilization of what the PISD already owns could be a better answer. I eat lunch with my grand children at times and I have noticed that the tables in the lunch rooms fold up and move on wheels. Space available for use for things like PE, etc. Otherwise the space goes unused except for lunch and choir. Of course this idea does not support the need for a new high school complex.
Here is another novel idea that was discussed. All supporters of the bond proposal must have lots of excess money. Join with the school to set up a tax deductible foundation like some other schools in Texas have done. NTCC has one. Contribute all your excess money towards the construction of a new high school complex, and then you don't infringe upon the rights of property owners who oppose this bond proposal. Problem is solved. Those who want it pay for it. Those who do not want it get to exercise their rights to utilize their money as they see fit. After all I am one of those old folks who has no kids in school, and I have paid my dues.
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"The number being tossed around on construction cost is $165 a square foot. The intermediate school could use an additional 5000 square feet of classroom space. At $165 a square foot that comes to $825,000. Another 10,000 square foot at the middle school and you are looking at a cost of $1.65 million. Total for classroom space where it is needed is $2.5 million. According to the local paper the PISD has this amount and more in reserves. Why don't they get busy? They did in regards to a new field house and turf for the football field. Total project costs for those items was estimated at $2.5 million."
"Why is it you don't understand?"
Ok, if they did that, what would happen when those kids left the middle school and intermediate.... high school would still have the overcrowding problem, the elementary, the primary. The primary will need 10 more rooms! If you would have read Mrs. Knox's great article in the paper this week, you would see that, "By building a new high school, it would alleviate the overcrowding at each campus. With the handicap mandates by the federal government, it would be best to go ahead and build new facilities rather than tackle a “fix it” job. Reasonable people understand federal mandates and how much they cost taxpayers." I like that last sentence. You would be making this even a higher tax rate. But I guess you don't look at it that way. Tunnel vision!
Now for the turf. Thanks to a great member of your group with his water sprinklers that he put on the field years ago... He did it all wrong, he ruied the ground and under the track. He did so much damage to the track and field that the school had to repair it, no exceptions. With all the cost that it was going to take to fix his mistake, the turf was not much more. In fact the cost of lawn care for the field grass would have equaled the extra amount from the field turf. Also the money that was spent on the turf was for athletics. It was all the revenue from gate entry and hosting and sponsorship over the years. This money could not be used for acadimics because it was athletic money. No taxes were raised due to that. In fact, with band competition, playoff games, and track tournaments, it will pay for itself. From Knox's letter, "the field house and track were in horrific shape. It was embarrassing for our kids and our visitors. I bet my last nickel those who cry the loudest on those issues have not darkened the doors at the field house or football games. Those of you who do not think sports builds character and pride in a school district are not in touch with children period." Also I see you said you have a grandchild in PISD schools, I feel sorry that you are one that is out of touch. You guys really need to start understanding the facts! Your only hurting our kids. If you have questions and want to know EVERY SINGLE option issue that was addressed go by the admenistration office. Every Option from A to 7-D is posted on the wall. If you just ask instead of making up stuff, you will understand this is the best way for every single school and child. - Got to get to the big meeting for all the pros for this bond election! Architect firm will be there and many other community leaders. Should be great!!
Man, you guys missed a great meeting tonight. The financial and architect firm was great! In front of a big crowd. You guys are very very very very misimformed and are way off base. No facy buildings, every measure and school option was looked at, other schools bonds also were talked about. Did you know that the state is, 99.9%, going to give their part! If they did not every school would be in danger, they would lose their jobs and everything if they did not, so they will be doing their part. And even if they did not it will still stay at 32.5 cents. Call these guys and talk to them personlly if you are really concerned. Did you know that it might in good ways be lower than 32.5 and when more people move here over the next 30 years it will go down each and ever new person. You guys, please, please, face the facts and than make your vote from that. Come on guys, you know we need it and its the right thing to do, the high school facility is the best option, money wise, of doing this. Doing the other schools will cost even more. Please, stop, face it and do the right thing. Deep down you know what that is.
"Did you know that it might in good ways be lower than 32.5 and when more people move here over the next 30 years it will go down each and ever new person."
Tax rates don't go down and don't let them fool you. The only rate that will go down is the tax rate associated with operations and maintenance. Tax rates associated with bond debt do not get reduced unless the bond is retired (paid off). You can ask the CFO of the school, superintendent of schools, TEA, and school board member. Once you approve the tax rate for bond debt the rate is there for the term of the bond. Now for another fact regarding tax rates they can only go down if the local assessed property tax values increase or the PISD reduces the rate by vote. It has not one thing to do with "each and every new person."
As to finances, all money coming into the school district is taxpayer money regardless of how it gets here. They may have seperate accounts for tracking purposes, however, all athletic funds go into the general revenues. It would have taken many years to generate the funds from gate sales at ballgames, etc. to have enough funds to lay the turf and build the field house. By the way the funds to do those items came from the school's surplus/reserve funds. Gate receipts, etc. may have helped, but highly unlikely since football is the only real money maker in high school sports. Football helps pay the way for the non-revenue generating sports like golf, tennis, baseball, softball, etc. This is a fact at the high school and college level.
"This money could not be used for acadimics because it was athletic money. No taxes were raised due to that." I have already addressed the issue of money could not be used for no other purpose in regards to athletics. Let me add that any money coming in from athletics can be used for acadimics. As to NO TAXES BEING RAISED - has nothing to do with athletic, sponsorship, etc. revenue. The property tax system in Texas is based upon assessed property values. As assessed values go down the tax rate will increase. As assessed values raise then property tax rates should decrease. Over the past many years as your assessed values have increased on property in the county your tax rate has not decreased! The PISD has chosen to take the additional money up to the roll back limit. This is a fact! This information can be verified by your chief appraiser.
"Doing the other schools will cost even more." How do we know? As to the various options - the only options presented are options to build a new high school faciltiy. The only question that has been raised is where are the options besides a new high school facility? Will this be found on the wall at the administration office? If so then I will communicate that message.
Understand that we know there are needs, is a new high school the very best option available? Without seeing the alternatives there is nothing to compare. Is there an absolute need for a new auditorium? It is hard for me to fork up money for another auditorium.
"Did you know that the state is, 99.9%, going to give their part!" Do you have this in writing? If not then all you have is a possibility. Real decisions are not made on possibilities.
"If they did not every school would be in danger, they would lose their jobs and everything if they did not, so they will be doing their part." Is this a scare tactic? Who will lose their jobs? Schools are not going to go out of business. Education will go on, it will just go on with the resources available to the school.
How do you know we were not at the meeting? Perhaps you were looking for the wrong person or persons!
Why did you not post a notice about the meeting on this blog site? Do you not want all to be informed? This medimum of communications has been receiving a lot of viewership. Just because one does not post does not mean one is not reading the posts!
I noticed you made a comment about the sprinkler system at the football field. Are you 100% certain that this individual installed the original sprinkler system? You beter be for if not you have just started a rumor that may or may not be true!
By the way this gentleman is not a member of this group. We don't always agree with his actions, but at times his actions are noble in the name of the freedoms we live with in this state and country. If not for some of these actions then you would be living in a Communist or Socialist nation. Not all decisions made by those who represent you are in your best interest. Surely, you don't want the government to do away with the rights of private property rights.
In regards to federal mandates - one of the reasons we call this bond issue into question. This is a local government mandate on our pocket book!
How do you know we were not at the meeting? Perhaps you were looking for the wrong person or persons!
Ha ha! thank you sir, you wraped it up all there, i knew you would wright back not understanding anything, well their are always people in every town that are like you, say no to everything. Nothing in the world will change your mind. Think about it, what will change your mind....calling the whole thing off? figures... Cound not ever imagine knowing such a person like that. But again most of yall are not from East Texas, so you don't understand.
....and no, 100% positive you werent there, we know who you are... I'm just giving you the chance to say who you are before I do.
39 hrs. and counting.....
Understand that we know there are needs, is a new high school the very best option available? Without seeing the alternatives there is nothing to compare. Is there an absolute need for a new auditorium? It is hard for me to fork up money for another auditorium.
All the other options are at the administration office...GO LOOK, you have to be active about this if your going to post negative stuff. Yes it is the best option, if you want to spend $10million of your own money to find out 100 other firms to tell you the same thing, than go ahead. Yes, it is needed very badly. I'm so sorry that you do not understand that....sir you need to know the needs before you talk negative over it. No, we know who you are, its not hard for you to fork over the money! Now others i have talked to, it is hard, and guess what, they are for it. Oh my... guess they understand.
Are you 100% certain that this individual installed the original sprinkler system? You beter be for if not you have just started a rumor that may or may not be true!
Oh dont worry, I'm preaching to the chior on that issue.
Go here http://pittsburgisd.livesitehost.com/ and scroll down to see the new dvd, press play. While you are watching know that every schools needs will be met by realigning all schools, but a new campus is required for this to happen so ever single school can see them met, not just one. Also a little bit of info, before this was ever talked about going for a bond, all the teachers were sent a survey about their needs, knowing nothing about this...every single one said, we need more space, at every campus! The only way to do this, costly wise, is to build a new high school and realign all schools.
"I eat lunch with my grand children at times and I have noticed that the tables in the lunch rooms fold up and move on wheels. Space available for use for things like PE, etc. Otherwise the space goes unused except for lunch and choir."
And your fine with our kids going to a school like that. tell me one that does that! You really don't care about the kids, or education.... you just care about your tight wallet. Great leason you are teaching our kids. Glade your on the other side!
"Why did you not post a notice about the meeting on this blog site? Do you not want all to be informed?"
I am not apart of that group or do not know any of them that are apart of it, I was invited by a member of the group. I think it is very easy to see why they would not post it on this blog. (1. everyone in town is pissed off about this blog because of your negative writings. (2. You have no true facts. and (3. It seems like you locked up your wallet and mind the first time you heard bond.
Truth of the matter is the facts, school realignments, tax rates promoted by the Pro Bond folks and the PISD have all been challenged, and for some reason you and others don't like the fact that folks have not just rolled over and decided to go along for the ride.
It appears that some who took the free tours were not takers of a new high school facility. The Pro side has a problem conveying the reality. Keep moving forth with your attacks on the 'non-natives' they really like the Welcome mat being rolled up in place of being rolled out. I noticed that some who wrote letters to the editor in support of the issue are either non-native, retired and have their school taxes frozen due to being 65 plus, etc. One who wrote does not even appear on the tax rolls of the Camp County Appraisal District on-line database. Kind of hard for these folks to understand where a property owner is coming from in regards to the amount of property taxes paid.
Make no mistake they will pay more - for the merchants they do business with will have to raise their prices to pay this additional tax bill.
As to the cafateria being used for more than one purpose I absolutely see not one thing wrong. Guess we should not use the grass outside for the children to play on as well!
The logic and rational for this whole bond issue has now become twisted. It has been nice debating the issues with you. Just make sure you are telling the people the truth in regards to the tax rates. Worse case and people need to prepare under worse case the rate is going to be 43 cents. This 43 cents will be paid for 30 years are until the bonds are retired. Tax rates do not move down in regards to the number of people. Tax rates are suppose to move down based upon assessed property values. The PISD has a terrible history of reducing the tax rate in regards to increased property valuations and this is a fact. The PISD exercised their right to increase the tax rate last year by 4 cents even with increased property valuations. If you are going to be speaking about this issue then at least visit with the chief appraiser to become more knowledgable about the subject matter.
"you just care about your tight wallet. Great leason you are teaching our kids." Being frugal - what a great lesson one can learn. If schools had been teaching this then it is possible we could have averted this sub-prime mortgage mess. After all, folks who did not sacrifice something for savings would never have been aloud to qualify for a home they could not afford. Show me a frugal individual and I bet they have money in the bank and don't live off credit cards and piling up debt to try and keep up with the Jones's of the community.
"The logic and rational for this whole bond issue has now become twisted."
Amen- You guys have done a great job at that from day one. Only hurting our kids every STEP you guys take.
"It appears that some who took the free tours were not takers of a new high school facility."
Funny how that is the only school they went to... they did not even bother to go to the other schools. Shows how much they really care about this bond election or our kids, just their wallets.
"Make no mistake they will pay more - for the merchants they do business with will have to raise their prices to pay this additional tax bill."
And yet, we still made it two years ago. Continues to show your scare tactics and your lack of knowledge.
"It has been nice debating the issues with you."
Yea, tell that to everyone in town! You have not come up with one thing that is debatable and have created your own feel of not being welcomed him as a non native. Talking all of this nonsense about this community has only hurt yourself.
"Funny how that is the only school they went to... they did not even bother to go to the other schools. Shows how much they really care about this bond election or our kids, just their wallets."
The Bond issue is about a new high school not the other buildings. Many have asked about the data in regards to the other buildings. There are no plans for additions of classroom space, etc. There are some minor improvements to the other facilities.
"And yet, we still made it two years ago. Continues to show your scare tactics and your lack of knowledge."
Let's see if I can help you understand. Our property tax system is based upon property valuations and tax rates. As appraisals increase so do the total taxes paid. Appraisals are higher now than they were two years ago, so we are paying more property taxes out of our pockets. The state legislature lowered our PISD school property tax rate to $1.00. They also gave the local PISD the option to exercise for an additional 4 cents and they did. Now to offset the local property tax reduction they enhanced the state franchise tax on businesses. Now businesses are paying a higher share of school taxes. In most cases 40% more than they paid two years ago. The additional 43 cents in regards will offer an additional 38% increase on top of the 40%. So over a two year period a business will be paying an additional 78% more than two years ago if this bond passes.
If someone told you they were going to take 78% of your paycheck you would probably put forth an effort to stop that from happening as well. Especially if you needed to feed your family, buy fuel, and provide the necessary essentials for your family.
As to knowledge it appears you have very little as to how the school property tax system actually works in the state of Texas.
"You have not come up with one thing that is debatable"
You say the tax rate is going to be 32.5 cents and it has been presented that the rate will be 43 cents. I believe you chose to debate this item. The source of the information presented in regards to the 43 cents was cited from page 1 of the Southwest Securities report to the PISD. You cited no source!
Have you even read the report from Southwest Securities? If not there is a wealth of information to help you understand the bond process and how tax rates are determined. One thing I find interesting is that Southwest Securites stated in their report that the school could borrow up to $36.5 million. You don't find it odd that the school design firm came in at an amount of approximately $38 million. Thus the reason the PISD will have to dip into reserves for the additional amount. How come the design firm did not come forth with a number first? After all this is the usual method. I know when I built here in Camp County I went and got estimates first and then I went to the bank to see what I could borrow.
When given the chance to post something factual like the MEETING you chose not to. It would have been easy to post the meeting just as you post responses to other posts on this site.
"The Bond issue is about a new high school not the other buildings. Many have asked about the data in regards to the other buildings."
Case closed. This shows right here that you know absolutely nothing about this bond election. It shows you have a tunnel vision. This will help every school. GET IT EVERY SCHOOL. I know you won't get it but at least someone is trying to make you figure out what this bond election is about. Your posts are against our kids and you want nothing to do with helping them, just yourself. IT IS ABOUT EVERY BUILDING. You choose not to see it that way and never will. You should be ashamed of yourself for not understanding this bond election. By doing that you are not caring for anyone except yourself. The whole part of your life should be about helping others and not thinking about yourself first.
"If someone told you they were going to take 78% of your paycheck you would probably put forth an effort to stop that from happening as well. Especially if you needed to feed your family, buy fuel, and provide the necessary essentials for your family."
Good scare tactic!
"You say the tax rate is going to be 32.5 cents and it has been presented that the rate will be 43 cents."
It is the other way around. It has been presented at 32.5, you chose to linger on 43. You need to face the facts and stop making up your own, its sad!!!
Most of what I read on this blog is not a logical debate, logical argument, or logical discussion. There is little evidence that those who favor school bonds understand simple or complex decision making processes. There is little evidence that several of the leaders of the pro school bond group understand that the real education problem is mostly a people problem.
The biographical information provided on the PISD website is an indicator of some of the limitations of local leadership. For example, I find no education background for one school board member and only a two-year junior college certificate for another. Some of the recent actions of the school board appear vindictive and indicate that board is being controlled by the lowest common denominator of intelligence.
After analyzing the writings of the pro school bond group in their letters to the editor, their comments on this blog, and talking with some of them, I doubt that a meaningful dialog is possible at this late date.
I think that the greatest problems in communication with the most driven of the pro school bond group are their similar educational backgrounds, beliefs, and ways of obtaining information, ways of processing information and ways of thinking. Pittsburg is almost a closed system. Its only hope for the future, I think, is to identify real problems before an economic collapse occurs. One of these problems is a cost effective education system that produces graduates who can compete.
Bob Roe
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